Dr. Will Tuttle
To remember what it is that you feel so strongly about. How great it would be to be able to get to reach people, to have finances flowing in from doing what you love to do. Many people have done that, and it’s definitely possible. And when we share something that’s really helpful to others, it’s going to come back.
Announcer
(Announcer) Welcome to Juice Guru Radio for entrepreneurs. Firestart your own health movement. And now your host, founder of Juice Guru Institute and bestselling author, Steve Prussack.
Steve Prussack
Welcome to another edition of Juicingpreneur Radio. I’m your host, Steve Prussack.
Steve Prussack
Today we’ve got a great friend, Dr. Will Tuttle. Visionary educator. He’s presented widely throughout North America and worldwide. Author of the #1 Amazon bestselling book, ‘The World Peace Diet,’ and firestarter of that revolution in the vegan movement. He’s a recipient of the Courage of Conscience Award and the Empty Cages Prize. Also the author of the recent book, ‘Your Inner Islands: The Keys to Intuitive Living’ and the newly released, ‘Buddhism and Veganism: Essays Connecting Spiritual Awakening and Animal Liberation.’
Steve Prussack
He’s doing incredible work, and his website is worldpeacediet.com. Let’s welcome to the show right now, Dr. Will Tuttle.
Dr. Will Tuttle
Thank you so much, Steve. And thank you everyone for listening and it’s really great to be with you here, for a little while. Thanks.
Steve Prussack
Well, thank you for being here, Dr. Tuttle. You’ve been in this movement for so long now and take us back. How did this journey begin? Where you said, ‘You know what? I’m a Zen Buddhist monk, but I’ve got a message to share right now?’
Dr. Will Tuttle
Right. Well, that’s the thing, you know. I think for me, the way it is probably for most people, it grew organically. It kind of grew out of the increasing awareness that I had of the consequences, really of the way that our society teaches us to eat and to see ourselves in relationship to nature and to animals and to each other. So, I think I was always somewhat interested in- and then during my college years, I got more interested in spiritual ideas. And I started meditating and doing yoga. This was back in the ’70s, when I was in my twenties.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And then I remember, eventually deciding to take a walk with my brother, kind of a pilgrimage. And we ended up in a community that was vegan called The Farm way back in 1975 in Tennessee. But it was like a bunch of hippies back then, about 1000 people. But that was really educational for me because I realized that you do not need to eat animal foods to be healthy. So I became a vegetarian at that point, 1975, and that really was a step in the right direction for me.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And I started living in Zen centers, actually, for about ten years in the Southeast, in Alabama, Georgia, and then eventually came to California. About five years later, I decided to drop dairy and eggs and go completely into veganism as a basically, ethical way of living that I could see was really better not only for my health but for the Earth and for animals and for hungry people for future generations and workers and so forth. So I can see there’s this whole array of benefits of forsaking meat, dairy products and eggs and embracing an organic, whole food, plant-based way of eating.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And so that was in 1980s, that was actually 40 years ago. And right from the very beginning, I felt impelled to share the message with other people. Partly maybe because I was born and raised in a newspaper family, and I just had this kind of publishing kind of energy in my bones that you got to get the word out. So, I was teaching college- I got my PhD at Berkeley. I started teaching college courses and in philosophy and various- I had taught many different courses, actually, but a lot of them were in philosophy, and literature, and humanities.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And I was able to bring this message to people. And it was great to be able to do that. I also play the piano, so I started thinking about maybe leaving academia and just being a freelance position and offering workshops on developing intuition. Because I think that is very important for everyone, for all of us, wherever we are in our journey, to develop a relationship with our inner guidance system so that we can live our own unique life authentically and not just go along with what everybody says we should be going along with.
Dr. Will Tuttle
So that was my actually PhD research at Berkeley was on educating intuition in adults. So I did that. I started traveling full time, giving workshops and lectures and concerts of original piano music. I met Madeleine, my wonderful wife, in Switzerland around that time. And she came over and we got married, so we started doing that together. And while this was happening, I was focusing mainly on the intuition and on uplifting and healing music. It was like this little voice kept saying, ‘You’ve got to spread the vegan message more.’
Dr. Will Tuttle
Because it’s one of those messages that most people do not want to hear. That’s not a really popular message but I just felt that the animals were calling out for someone to protect them and the Earth and future generations and hungry people. So I just started figuring out ways to bring the message in to the-. I was working a lot through progressive churches and different conferences and things and environmental conferences. So, that’s what happened. I just started finding ways to speak about it. And I think the entrepreneurial spirit of just being creative and offering something to people without really trying to change anybody and just offering something.
Dr. Will Tuttle
So I had cassettes, back then and CDs of music. We had some of Madeleine’s art, and then we did guided meditations for CDs and so forth. And then at one point, I thought someone’s going to write a book that will give the big picture of the consequences of animal agriculture. And I can’t wait to read that book. So a few years went by and nobody wrote it. And finally, Madeline said, ‘You know Will, I think if you want to read that book, you probably have to write it yourself.’
Dr. Will Tuttle
So while I was doing all this other stuff, I started writing ‘The World Peace Diet,’ and it took five years. But when it was out, it kind of opened a huge number of new doorways because the book itself became a movement, really. And it’s been translated into 16 languages. And it really tries to connect us as human beings with the deeper dimension of who we are as eternal consciousness on this Earth, here to grow and to awaken and to contribute to the healing of the world for the few short years, really, that we’re on this Earth.
Dr. Will Tuttle
So for me, it’s been just a fantastic adventure, this life. And I’m so glad that I’ve been able to meet you and to meet so many beautiful people in this movement. And to see that even though we’re facing all kinds of difficulties and challenges and crises in the world today, like we have been, that there is this underlying. And I think growing awareness that by improving our food and our nutrition and our consciousness, we can transform ourselves and contribute to the transformation of our society. And that that’s a worthy thing to do for all of us and more and more people, I think, are doing that in each of us in our own ways.
Dr. Will Tuttle
So I just want to encourage everyone to listen to your inner voice, to that inner spiritual prompting that inspires you to try something new. And to connect with your own unique voice and your unique gifts and talents that you have. And really dedicate them to something that’s helpful for everyone. And I think if you do that, you’ll find- like I have, that success comes. That success isn’t necessarily just monetary. It’s really the time that we have, the joy that’s in our hearts, the feeling of gratitude that goes through our life as we’re walking around and doing things.
Dr. Will Tuttle
That’s I think- and being able to contribute in some way that we feel is meaningful. I think that’s really the goal here. And I’m so glad to see that you’re offering practical ways for people to implement these kinds of ideas and connect everybody with their unique contributions.
Steve Prussack
It’s really exciting to have you for me. Because when I left the nine-to-five job and really wanted to get this message out, really the first thing I did about ten years ago was approach you and say, ‘Hey, I love your book, The World Peace Diet. What do you think about the idea of creating an online mastery facilitator…’- well it grew into other things. But remember all the way back then, there was an opportunity that you could reach people all over the world with your amazing message.
Dr. Will Tuttle
Right. No, it’s true, Steve, and I really appreciate your efforts to help kind of create something, a training program that we did together. And then, that grew into the Vegan Palooza, which was really the largest vegan online summit in history, at that point. And we had a lot of people on and we had interviewed all of the- for two years, the top most well known people and I think, really knowledgeable people in the vegan world. And really, I think when we do things like that, work together and try to do our best, that has ripples that go out.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And those ripples not only go out to bless others, eventually they start rippling back toward us and bless us. That’s the whole thing. I talk about this in ‘The World Peace Diet.’ It’s the boomerang effect. Whatever we sow, we reap. So for putting something out there that’s high quality and that’s beneficial, don’t worry. You will be supported by the universe. It’ll come back.
Steve Prussack
I got you. I remember you telling me that and I was like, ‘But Dr. Tuttle, I’ve got to pay the bills and I don’t know if I could do this.’ And you said, ‘You just got to relax and know what you’re doing means something.’
Dr. Will Tuttle
Yes. I think that’s the most important thing. The basic cultural program that in many ways has wounded all of us, is a mentality of lack. That there’s just not enough to go around. That you have to compete and fight with others for the resources. And this underlying idea of this competitive model, where we look at others as impediments to us or as instruments that we can use, if I can somehow use that person or if I can convince them of something, or if I can change them, or if I can exploit them. And of course, animals bear the full fury of this mentality because they’re really defenseless.
Dr. Will Tuttle
But in many ways, we see that playing out that people with more money and more power very often are trying to use those with less money and less power. And this whole thing runs through our educational system. It runs through many different aspects and institutions in our society. And I think politically and economically and from all these different points of view, we all realized that it’s time for a more realistic and positive and uplifting and inspiring story, basically in way of living. And sure enough- I used to teach college courses in comparative religion, and it’s great to see that there’s so many ancient wisdom traditions, both from the east and the west, that can help us to see that whatever we focus our attention on will expand.
Dr. Will Tuttle
So, if we’re focusing our attention on service and providing something of benefit and creating beauty and truth, doors will open. The doors do open. And I’ve just seen miracles happening not only in my life, but in lives of people who have gone through our trainings, The World Peace Diet trainings and gone on to create vegan sanctuaries, vegan film, documentary films, vegan study groups, vegan educational groups, vegan restaurants, vegan communities, online communities. So many different wonderful flowers in the garden that keep popping up. And one of us, I think, really our call to find our unique gifts, like the unique flower that we can be and to help others.
Dr. Will Tuttle
I think the best way to do it, is to help others do it in many ways. And that’s what you were doing. You were kind of helping The World Peace Diet movement go and then that led into the Juice Guru movement yourself, which is taking on a life of its own, which is really beautiful to see. And other people can do the same thing and be inspired and learn not only the practical things, but learning the mindset. I think it’s very important to cultivate an attitude- from the very first moment that you wake up in the morning, to breathe and cultivate a sense of gratitude for another wonderful opportunity to learn and grow and to be part of the positive planet.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And give thanks that your own inner progress, the inner progress that you’re making, that we’re all making is building a foundation for greater wisdom and joy and freedom on every level, not only for you as an individual, but for everyone. Because we’re all interconnected fundamentally, the more we help others, really, the more we’re helping ourselves.
Steve Prussack
Yeah and I’ll say in all those years back that we started on those projects together, it was such a gift to learn about mindset from you and how important that was. And in your own journey, I suppose it was helpful along the way, too.
Dr. Will Tuttle
Right. Well, that’s the thing. I feel very blessed to have had some really incredible teachers along the way. And I got interested early on in Zen Buddhism and the idea of quieting the mind. And of course, when one tries doing that, the mind becomes even noisier and louder and more unruly. So it’s challenging, to say the least. But I just had a passion for it, for some reason. I just had such a passion. I remember when I was only 22 years old, I was meditating 8 hours a day. Every day getting up at 03:00 in the morning, and I felt that this is what the old Zen monks did, so I should do it too.
Dr. Will Tuttle
So it’s true. It’s like they’re all saying, ‘When the student is ready, the teacher appears.’ And eventually this wonderful Zen teacher entered my life, who I knew until he passed away. About 20 years, I guess he passed away, like in his mid nineties. But he really helped me a lot with, just being an example, basically. I think that’s how a teacher can really do. They can’t really teach you anything. We have to learn ourselves. But they can be an example of another way of living, where instead of reacting to an insult with anger, we just react with a smile and send love to the person because we understand, people are wounded and nothing is really personal.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And I think, when we practice meditation, that’s really the key. At least it has been for me, because it allows me to become a witness to the mind. Otherwise, my mind is me. I think my mind is me and my thoughts are me and my feelings. And then, when I learned to just kind of see these things arising, I realized that what I am is the infinite awareness within which all of this is arising, that’s eternal. And when this body dies, I’m never going to die. There’s an old Zen saying, ‘If you die before you die, then when you die, you won’t die.’
Dr. Will Tuttle
The idea is that we need to, in a sense, die to this illusion of being a fundamentally separate self, struggling to try to get by and so forth. And when we do that, we begin to embody a deep clarity and relax into the truth that we can never die. And whatever we do in this life, it’s just like creating an art piece that in many ways is like a Tibetan Sand Mandala. They create these beautiful Sand Mandalas, and then at the end, they just destroy it. It’s beautiful and it’s temporary.
Dr. Will Tuttle
Everything is temporary. What really lasts is our consciousness. The love that we cultivate is what lasts and everything else is going to be washed away by the oceans of time, except for our consciousness, and the quality of our consciousness, and how we touch others in their consciousness. So of course, we’re raised in a society where we’re taught the opposite of this. That’s the problem, the wound that we’re faced with. We’re all taught that we’re a thing, an object that was born and will die, and we have to manipulate all the other objects, like we do with animals. We buy and sell them by the pound. We do this to billions of animals and it doesn’t just hurt them, it hurts us.
Steve Prussack
We reduce them, and then we end up reducing ourselves to just being this object that was born and will die. So I think, that’s why what you’re teaching- when you teach people to help move away from eating animal foods toward eating plant-based foods, especially that are whole and organic, it actually changes at such a deep level. The biochemistry of the body and the whole microbiome inside of us, the community of other microorganisms suddenly becomes friendlier and gives rise to a much healthier immune system.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And we begin to feel a sense of benevolence and harmony inside of us. And the weights around our shoulders and the tension in the pit of our stomach begins to go away. Because we’re not eating terror and fear and pain. We’re eating joy and abundance. We can even perhaps get a garden and grow some of our own food ourselves. Just to be part of this miracle of planting some seeds and having the Earth just bring forth beautiful fruits and vegetables and nuts, grains, and seeds, and legumes, all this amazing beauty and bounty that give us all the nutrients that we need to be healthy. All the fiber, and minerals, and vitamins, and essential fatty acids, and proteins, amino acids, starch – everything that we need, carbohydrates to just thrive is in plants in a very benevolent, beautiful artistic package.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And it’s just, in a sense, such a deep tragedy that from the time of little kids we’re pulled away, it’s like we’re hijacked away from that awareness and that practice into domination and exploitation and violence and eating terror and creating a microbiome that reduces our immune system. It makes us afraid, essentially afraid of viruses and afraid of bacteria, afraid of these things that we think can harm us. But if we’re really healthy- that’s the thing I’ve noticed, like one of the things, I’ll just say the final thing here. Since The World Peace Diet was translated into all these languages, the last five years, Madeleine and I have traveled to over 50 countries all over the world. All over Asia, East Asia, West Asia, India, Australia, New Zealand, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, North and South America, all 50 states.
Dr. Will Tuttle
We’ve been continually bombarded with people. Giving lectures to four or five hundred people and afterwards, everybody wants a picture and a hug and all this. A lot of them, I’m sure, carrying flus and viruses and bacteria and all these things. But I’ve never gotten sick because I think when we stay at a high vibration, then we’re at the vibration of health. And the vibration of health is something that we can maintain and encourage within ourselves by the foods we’re eating, by the thoughts we’re thinking, the feelings that we’re cultivating, and exercising our body, and getting plenty of sunshine and fresh air.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And really the other thing that’s really important, is to consciously build harmonious relationships with other people. There’s nothing worse for our health than to have relationships where there’s this underlying feeling of stress or judgment or criticism. That’s really hard on us. So to make an effort to be the one who’s being loving and kind, even if others are not and that will help not only them, it will help us a lot, too.
Dr. Will Tuttle
Realizing again, people are wounded and very often they’re saying things just because they’ve been harmed as kids themselves, by critical parents who were wounded by their parents and It all goes through the generations. But it’s up to us, I think as individuals, to raise our vibration to the point where we’re being a blessing in the world. And then raising the vibration of humanity rather than bringing it down.
Steve Prussack
So, when you take us back to when you were writing the book, The World Peace Diet, all those years back and speaking all over the world and all that work you were doing, obviously, it took a lot of energy, a lot of commitment and what really drove you, back then?
Dr. Will Tuttle
Well, I guess from the outside, I’ve always looked kind of like a driven person, at least since I left the meditation centers and got my Master’s and then my PhD and started giving lectures and writing and having a very full life and full schedule and doing a lot. And what drives me I guess, what can I say? That’s a great question. I think there’s just this underlying sense that I have lots of energy and something needs to be done. And so I like to jump in and do it. I guess that’s kind of the thing.
Dr. Will Tuttle
I think, there’s something to be said for the idea- people make this kind of a joke, ‘We should be a human being, not a human doing.’ And I think that’s very important. It’s important to take time to just sit and be. However, the other thing that’s important to realize is that we’re on this Earth and we have a physical body with hands and feet and the mouth and all these things that are our tools. And we’re really here to do something, actually.
Dr. Will Tuttle
We’re here on this Earth to actively engage, and actually do something, create something, whatever it is for us to do to co-create. I think it’s even better work to co-create with the Creator, whoever that is, however, that is. The infinite power that really is creating us and to co-create with others, with other humans and with animals. They’re very intelligent, beautiful beings, too. So to make ourselves available to be creative, I think that’s something that really brings joy. I think what the biggest problem, the worst thing that’s going on in our society is that people are going to jobs that are not their dream job every day.
Dr. Will Tuttle
They’re punching a clock, they’re just going to work to make money and they feel like a slave, in a certain sense. And then they want to medicate, they want to have a drink or do something to avoid that bad feeling of wasting the precious life of a human being on this beautiful Earth with just working in some job that doesn’t really bring a deep meaning. So what you’re offering, I think, Steve, and what we’re talking about here is work that is deeply fulfilling. An interesting thing for me, quite honestly, is that I have never really-, I did for a little while back in my twenties, I had jobs for a little while when I worked here and there, I worked in a hotel and a couple of things while I was just in the first few years.
Dr. Will Tuttle
But after the time I was in my late twenties, I never worked again. I never feel like I ever worked a job after that. Because I was just doing what I love to do and money was coming in, as a side result. People were buying books, people were buying CDs, people were asking me to give a talk and giving a donation. And most of the money, I would say, like over 90%, maybe even almost 100% of the money, when you really think about it, it was just donations. It’s all been donations.
Dr. Will Tuttle
Everything’s been really, people- like the Vegan Palooza we did. People wanted to get the recording of that. It was so great. So they donated to us, right? And we get the donations. And everything- people want to buy a book and they like the talk- and Madeline and I do a lot of that or they like one of her paintings or they like one of my CDs or whatever it is. They want to give something. So we give, they give back. The more we give, the more that comes back.
Dr. Will Tuttle
Everything is really a donation. I think a donation economy is really the way to go. It’s like I’ve never, ever really charged anything for anybody. If anybody wants to come to a talk, they can come, even if it says whatever, $20. But no one’s ever turned away for lack of funds. Everyone’s always welcome. I just think, the more we give- just give things, then people- it comes back sooner or later, in some way or another. And I think, the most important thing is to be a giver. It’s an old saying, ‘You can’t outgive the universe’ or ‘You can’t outgive God.’
Dr. Will Tuttle
People say something and that idea is, if you do, if you give, it’s just going to come back, somehow or another. And it’ll come back not just in money, but in my case, I feel like this beautiful gift of a wonderful relationship with my wife and friends and so forth. The things that really matter and challenges when there’s disharmony, for some reason, they’re not bad either. Challenges are actually nothing to be feared. It’s just learning opportunities and feedback. How can I do it better next time? That kind of thing.
Steve Prussack
Well, what were some of those challenges on the way or roadblocks? Or maybe attempts to hold you back or maybe you had to rethink things. What were some of those struggles as you went along this journey to build the movement?
Dr. Will Tuttle
Well, there’s quite a few things that come up in daily life. I mean, generally speaking, I would say the biggest struggles are the ones we have with ourselves, that I would have with myself whether-. Like when I was teaching college, I really loved teaching college, and I was good at it. I was getting paid. I had basically kind of what you would call a tenured. It was de facto tenure at the Academy of Art College in San Francisco, where I had a job and I could teach my classes and it was comfortable and everybody liked it. I liked it. They liked it.
Dr. Will Tuttle
But there was something inside me that was saying, it wasn’t enough. So, I guess the challenge was to actually say, ‘Okay, I’m leaving this. I’m going out into the great unknown.’ And so there’s a sort of fear, I guess can come up like, ‘How am I going to make any money?’ But I did. I took a leap and tried it. And lo and behold, it worked really well. And I was able to make enough money selling cassettes, back then it was before CDs even came out, to do fine financially.
Dr. Will Tuttle
I had to work hard. That’s one of the things, I think people think that there’s maybe a way to do it without working hard. I really work hard, actually at what I do and scheduling. And I’m not sure if that’s good or not. I think maybe, I could have employed other people, maybe better. But I just never did, I just pretty much have been kind of a one-man show, in a way, all the way through. But that’s just been my way. Other people might have it better to hire more people, and maybe we’ll do that at some point.
Dr. Will Tuttle
But I just found that just having a kind of my own little thing, with me and Madeleine, has worked really well, all in all. And the main challenges, I guess, are really just being willing to put the time in and not get discouraged when you get a no and a no and a no and a no. And then some people, I think, might give up at that point. But you just got to keep-, like if I’m scheduling something and it’s not going to work in Atlanta or in Savannah or whatever. You just keep- ‘Well, I’m going to try Myrtle Beach.’ Or whatever you just keep working.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And the neat thing is that with time, network builds and it gets easier. But the idea of working through the resistance of not being willing to get a lot of no’s and then just keep trying. That’s I think one of the most important things that I found. And I guess the other thing I would say is hard to deal with well, maybe two more things. One is institute pressure because we all have to deal with institutions. And that can be tough, whatever the institutions are, whether it’s governmental or educational.
Dr. Will Tuttle
Like when I was teaching, for example, I had to do certain things in a certain way, or I’ll have to do certain things in a certain way with the governmental agencies. Those kinds of things are always, I think, challenging for people, but to just work with it as gracefully as we can. And then other people, of course, there’s an old saying by Sartre in his play ‘No Exit,’ It’s not an old saying, but it’s a famous line which is, ‘Hell is other people.’ That’s what he realizes in this place, the problem of my life is other people.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And in a sense, that is hard. Like in the vegan movement, it’s so difficult. We want to bring this message to people and the enormous resistance that people have. I had ministers telling me, like at churches, when I’m asked about coming and giving a talk on a Sunday morning and putting on a workshop and they would say, ‘Well, don’t say anything about animals or vegetarianism or veganism, because then you can’t come.’ So there’s this resistance one has to kind of work with other people, with institutions. And sometimes I’ve had to just say, ‘Okay, I’m not going to come there. I’m not going to do that.’
Dr. Will Tuttle
But when one door closes, I always feel another door will open. And I think, there’s been a lot of those kinds of situation. But the underlying idea, I think, really is to practice every day a discipline, like from the outside like a discipline. That started early on because I was practicing-, my father taught me to play the piano, so I was practicing every day. And then, it kind of led right into practicing meditation every day, yoga every day, Tai Chi every day and other things. I was sitting down, doing the work that needs to be done every day, just kind of having that kind of discipline.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And then really avoiding, at least for me this has been important, avoiding distractions that are harmful. Like, I have not had a television in 50 years. I’ve never haven’t drunk alcohol in 50 years or taking any drugs or anything. I think, trying to keep a pure body temple, mind is really important. We don’t eat anything that’s not organic and whole, and we don’t need sugar. Just really clean food and without toxins. That’s just much more fun to live that way, so much more fun, so much more energy and happiness. It looks like a discipline and maybe it is, in the beginning, but once it gets going and gets momentum, it’s just fantastic.
Steve Prussack
Of all this work you’ve done, what achievement are you most proud of?
Dr. Will Tuttle
Wow. Gosh. I’d say on one level, I would say The World Peace Diet and the movement that came out of that. To try to help propel the world into a deeper appreciation of the consequences of animal agriculture. Not just that it’s bad for our health and the environment and the animals, but seeing more deeply the spiritual, cultural impact of animal agriculture and how it enslaves us. How it’s enslaving us, really now and how we can liberate ourselves when we liberate animals. So that’s I would say, if there’s any kind of overarching thing that I’m feel really good about having put my energy into it and done, it would be that.
Dr. Will Tuttle
But I think, it’s really wonderful to get emails from people that say that they helped them go vegan or other people who say that the music or the meditations help them every day to be more peaceful. And those kinds of things, I think are helpful, too. They made me feel like something helped somebody. And I think, just loving words that have gone out to hopefully, bless other people. That’s the most important thing.
Steve Prussack
Well, you had your goals at the beginning to reach more people and inspire more people, and you’ve reached all these goals. But what was the biggest transformation that happened along the way? Maybe something you didn’t expect or what was your biggest transformation?
Dr. Will Tuttle
Well, when I think of- maybe two things. When I was growing up, there was a major transformation that happened early on. It was pretty agonizing. At the time, when I was in college, we were going to the Vietnam War. I was going to go into my father’s business and just sort of fulfill my destiny as working in the system more or less. And I just decided to say no to that and walk off into the world. Luckily, my brother- my younger brother Ed, he thought that’s a great idea. So we did it together, and that really helped. But it made it easier for the two of us.
Dr. Will Tuttle
But we walked into offering the world with no money, really. I’ve never looked back. I never took money from my parents and just started, just walking. I left the world and I decided that whatever happens in this lifetime with the most important thing is spiritual awakening. That’s all that matters. My brother and I every day, we would just repeat that over and over again. Somehow meals would come, and somehow food would come. We just walked all the way from New England to Alabama with no money, eventually to a Zen Center.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And I’m a completely different person because of that. Because it was like leaving this world, I’m still here but it was like the sense of there’s a whole other reason for being here. It’s not about making money or impressing anyone. It’s really about discovering the truth that I am. And then, I think at one point in a meditation retreat in 1987, I guess it was. I had a kind of a breakthrough, finally. And I’ve after many years- I’ve been meditating where I actually, directly realize that this self that I think I am is actually- it’s sort of hard to put into words, but it’s just a figment, really.
Dr. Will Tuttle
It’s this eternal consciousness. Everything else is an illusion. When I realized that in a nonverbal way, it was like everything that can bother me, that can upset me, that people can judge me became much less. It didn’t have claws. It didn’t have fish hooks that could tear my flesh like it did before. But then I realized that’s when the work really begins. Because now I have to bring- try to do my best to bring my life into alignment with that understanding. And I think I was pretty much on my own.
Dr. Will Tuttle
So when I married Madeleine, that was the other transformation. It was like, actually this is a person from a different society, different- whole different language, different gender, of course, a woman and different way of looking at the world. And so, the challenge of just being in harmony with this one person that I love, that’s a great opportunity. I think to grow spiritually, to just do things in a different way than I would on my own, just to be different.
Dr. Will Tuttle
I think relationship is the greatest teacher. And I feel so grateful that I could study with Tibetan masters and Zen masters and learn a lot from them. But I’ve learned a lot also, just from my relationship with Madeline. It softened me. I can be really, I know really tough and kind of harsh, demanding. And she helped me to realize that veganism is sensitivity to others, not just animals, but to human animals, as well. And so, that’s been a great learning experience for me, too.
Steve Prussack
Well, great. And you had me thinking because Julie and I were talking about how there’s so much fear right now. And at the root of it, the fear is of death. I think people are really afraid that they’re going to end up dying from this Coronavirus or this pandemic. And it’s creating a level of insanity around us that we see. And a lot of it’s on the TV, which thankfully you don’t have, because a lot of people are watching the TV, watching the messaging that’s putting people in the state of fear. Do you think it’s that people have to overcome the fear of death in order to experience peace?
Dr. Will Tuttle
Yes, I think so. I think there’s two things, I’ll say here. One is fear is a very powerful motivator. And I think that’s why fear is being cultivated in the mass media now. Because there are very powerful forces at work, the big pharmaceutical forces, and I think military forces in the background that want to create more of a control over people. And so are using fear to help usher in potentially, taking away of our basic freedoms. So I think, it’s important to realize that we cannot die. How can I say? What we are as eternal consciousness that can never die.
Dr. Will Tuttle
Death is simply a shifting of our attention into another realm. We’re still going to be conscious, and we’re going to have learned something while we’re here. But we don’t have to worry about it. We can’t be harmed by anything, certainly not by viruses. But I think the real death that we’re afraid of actually, are the deaths, plural, that we are inflicting on animals and others. Also I think on some level, through our government of people that we’re killing in the Middle East and so forth. But especially, if I go to the store and I take up my wallet and I’m paying for meat, dairy products and eggs.
Dr. Will Tuttle
I’m paying someone somewhere to stab an animal, to cause an animal not only to die, but to be terrified, to be abused and so forth. And so that animal is vulnerable and terrified and is killed because of me. Right? I’m the cause. I want to eat meat. I want to eat dairy. I want to eat some eggs. So I’m killing. I’m going to pay someone to kill. And so we know that. I mean, we’re not stupid. We know that. Anyone who’s eating meat, dairy products or eggs knows deep down that they’re killing. They’re causing the death of others.
Dr. Will Tuttle
That they are like a virus, in the sense that, a virus is something that attacks us but we can’t see it. Where is it? It’s invisible. It’s just attacking us. We’re afraid of it. We are that to these animals. We’re this unseen killer, they can’t see us because we’re far away but we took out our wallet, we paid. And now we’re the unseen killer that we’re so afraid of ourselves. This is what Carl Jung called, ‘The shadow.’ It’s what we are, but what we don’t want to see, we’re afraid to look at.
Dr. Will Tuttle
So I think, as long as we live in a society based on animal agriculture, we’re going to be plagued with terrorism because we are terrorists to animals. And with pandemics and viruses and fear because we’re causing that in others. So there’s a way out of this. It’s a beautiful way out. Going vegan and moving to a plant-based way of eating. And then going deeper, questioning all the narratives in our society, questioning who’s controlling the media and questioning the narratives in our own minds. I think, these are great things we can do to help heal not only ourselves and our loved ones, but our world.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And for me, it’s like decolonizing my own mind. Our minds have been colonized by a certain way of looking at the world and to refresh that somehow, to kind of have a- uplift that take it to a higher level. And it’s beautiful. It’s something that we can work on each one of us, and we can help each other to do that, too, which is what I think you’re doing with your training here.
Steve Prussack
Wow, that was powerful. Thank you for that. Now, what is your advice to those that are just starting out, that want to create a movement, reach people with a powerful message. What would your advice be to those that are just starting out in all this?
Dr. Will Tuttle
Well, it’s great. My advice would be essentially to just go for it, of course. And to realize that it’s 90% internal and 10% external. The 10% external will require, I’m sure, quite a bit of perspiration. But I think, the key is to keep inspired. To take time every day to remember what it is that you feel so strongly about. How great it would be to be able to get- to reach people, to have finances flowing in from doing what you love to do. Many people have done that, and it’s definitely possible.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And when we share something that’s really helpful to others, it’s going to come back. So, I would just encourage people to be willing to try to learn from the best. Try to find people who know how to do what you would like to be able to do and to realize the importance of right association. There’s this idea in the Buddhism of the Noble Eightfold Path of right speech, right thought, right action, right livelihood, right meditation and so forth. But underlying all of those is right association. To associate yourself with people you would like to be like.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And we human beings are sponges. We become like those who are around us. So if we surround ourselves with people who drag us down, who don’t really align with our vision, who don’t see us doing what we think we’d love to do, it makes it a lot harder. So do the best you can to associate with people who are on the same wavelength and who are more advanced than you are. That’s the best thing to do. People who are ahead of you, so you have to kind of catch up.
Dr. Will Tuttle
And when you’re around those kind of people, either physically or online, however you can do it, then you’re going to be, in a sense, in training your consciousness to a higher vibration of greater understanding and wisdom and awareness. And it’s very helpful. I think it’s been understood that this is essential in the spiritual traditions of the world, the ancient wisdom teachings. You don’t go study with a local drunk. You study with a master, right? That’s how you do it.
Dr. Will Tuttle
It’s the same thing. Try to create community that supports the vision that you have as best you can online, or however you can do it. And the beautiful thing with Internet is we can do that. We can create communities of like-minded people that can create ripples into the whole consciousness of the world and make it better for everyone.
Steve Prussack
Yeah and you can still reach them with the social distancing.
Dr. Will Tuttle
Right, exactly.
Steve Prussack
He’s Dr. Will Tuttle and he’s the firestarter of The World Peace Diet, the movement, the vegan movement. And the website is www.worldpeacediet.com. Dr. Tuttle, is that the best way for our listeners to follow the work you’re doing?
Dr. Will Tuttle
That is, Steve. Yeah, worldpeacediet.com. It’s got our tour schedule when that all gets started up again. And also has our training, as well as the music and the art, the books, and articles that I’ve written and so forth. We have a Facebook group, World Peace Diet Facebook group. If anyone’s interested in that as well. But I think, just go to our website, you can find out more there.
Steve Prussack
Dr. Will Tuttle. Dr. Tuttle, thank you so much. Thank you for all these years of incredible work. Taking a chance on me at the beginning of my entrepreneurial career to help get this message out. And I appreciate everything. You’re such a gift. Thank you for all your work.
Dr. Will Tuttle
Bless you, Steve. Thank you. And thank you everyone for all the efforts you’re making.
Steve Prussack
Dr. Will Tuttle right here on Juicingpreneur Radio.
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